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# This is the story of
our first teacher

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# Shetland made her jumpers
and the devil made her features... #

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The Proclaimers are...

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Authentic, powerful, brilliant.

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# It's over and done with... #

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Creative.

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Happy, exciting.

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And loud.

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Strident, fearless.

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Full-tilt soulful rock and roll.

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Total soul music.

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And Scottish.

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# I've been so sad

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# Since you said my accent was bad

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# He's worn a frown

16
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# This Caledonia clown... #

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30 years ago, the world of pop music

18
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was turned upside down
and inside out

19
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with the release of
The Proclaimers' debut album,

20
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This Is The Story.

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# If I flattened all the vowels
And threw the R away... #

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For identical twin brothers
from Auchtermuchty,

23
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it was an unlikely success,

24
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and propelled
Craig and Charlie Reid to stardom.

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The Proclaimers!

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CHEERING

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Here come the greatest band
in the world, The Proclaimers!

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CHEERING

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# I would walk 500 miles... #

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Since then, The Proclaimers have
gone from strength to strength,

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touring, writing, touring,

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releasing album after album,

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becoming cartoons, touring,

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having their songs adapted into
a musical and film,

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and, of course, touring.

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# I wanna spend my life
with you... #

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I'm a huge fan.
I've bought every album

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and seen them live countless times
over the years.

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I even had Life With You played
at my wedding

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as I walked down the aisle.

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They never fail to
make my heart fly -

42
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and so I was delighted to
meet up with them

43
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to look back
at their story so far.

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Craig and Charlie, hello.
Hello. Hello.

45
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What was the first Proclaimers song,
do you remember? Maybe Misty Blue?

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Misty Blue,
that was one of the first ones,

47
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Misty Blue was one of the
first ones.

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That's funny, I can't even remember.

49
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Might have been Over And Done With,
it could have been. Yeah.

50
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That was one of my
Desert Island Discs.

51
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And so you just sort of,

52
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you got, you got a kind of
cache of songs together

53
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and took them to local pubs,
or what?

54
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Yeah, we tried, we tried pubs,
we tried getting gigs,

55
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we didn't, we got very few gigs,
very few.

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We got a gig in Nicky Tams,
a pub in Edinburgh.

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Did that show,
did that gig for a few weeks,

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a few months or something -

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and then we met Kenny MacDonald,
who's still our manager,

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and he became our manager,

61
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and then it started,

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everything that was not being
sorted out started to be sorted out.

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You were seeing it as a career,
it wasn't just something...

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It was something, not...

65
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I've never really seen it
as a career. Oh, right, even now?

66
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No, no. It's something...it is
something that claims you,

67
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and you don't, you don't know how
you're going to get there,

68
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you don't know what it's going
to sound like -

69
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but you know that's what you want
to do, that's the first thing,

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that's the number one thing,

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is play music and everything else
has just got to fit in with that.

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And where does Kevin Rowland
come into it all?

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We'd seen Dexys on the very first
UK tour that they'd done,

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at the very start of 1980.

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# Back in '68 in a sweaty club

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# Oh, Geno... #

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I remember seeing them
down the front of the stage

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at the very first gig,
which I think was Edinburgh,

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and...

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Because you can't miss them,
you know,

81
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two guys who look very similar
with glasses.

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And... Great look.

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And of course, the following night,
and I thought,

84
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"Oh, those two guys are down
the front again."

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# I'll only ask you once more... #

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They came on stage,

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it was something
we weren't expecting,

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it was like being hit by a truck.
Right.

89
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It was kind of breathtaking
how good they were.

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How... How unusual they were.

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We went backstage after, said hello
to people, and met Kevin Rowland,

92
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and we just went to Dexys shows
after there, kept in touch.

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# This man is looking for someone
to hold him down... #

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We became friends,
and they would come down,

95
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and we'd have these long discussions
into the night, you know.

96
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And they were very political.

97
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They were very vocal
in what they thought -

98
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and you couldn't win an argument
with them,

99
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because there was two of them.

100
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But incredible passion, and...
and, you know, they inspired me.

101
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To me, they were like a conscience,
to me, you know?

102
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They were like...
because they were so honest,

103
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and they were so genuine, and they
were so not willing to compromise.

104
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He kind of helped us out
down the years,

105
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putting us in contact with people.

106
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Giving us demo time.

107
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Yeah,
they came down to Birmingham

108
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for a couple of days
and we recorded some demos.

109
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I think I booked a couple of days
in the studio,

110
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because I'm just used to that,
demos taking a bit of time,

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and I think I sort of dropped
them off at the studio,

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went in, introduced them to the
bloke and I went off somewhere.

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Came back about an hour later,
and they were like, "We're done."

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Like, oh, OK! I listened to them
and they were great, you know?

115
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So he helped you get
a demo together,

116
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and it was that demo
that made it to Paul Heaton?

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Yes, it was, yes. Yes, it was.

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"LETTER FROM AMERICA" PLAYS ON TAPE

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# When you go, will you send back

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# A letter from America

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# Take a look up the rail track

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# From Miami to Canada... #

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This is the same tape recorder
we had in the van,

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which was our stereo system
in those days.

125
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We used to get a lot of demos sent
to our, sort of, postbox address,

126
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and we'd let them build up,

127
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and then when we went away,
The Housemartins,

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we'd take all the cassettes with us
and play them in the van.

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So, yeah, sometime in early '86,
late '85, their demo got played,

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in a...you know, like a battle
of the bands inside the van.

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It took me by surprise
straight away,

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because half the stuff you heard,
it was the '80s, you know,

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it was right bang in the middle
of the '80s -

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and it just struck me
as being very different.

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I couldn't work out where...
where their roots were.

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Which was great, you know, because
most bands you could say,

137
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oh, they're trying to sound like
The Smiths

138
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or trying to sound like
Spandau Ballet, or whatever -

139
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but with them, you couldn't.

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So that's, straightaway,
that stuck them out.

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I suggested, you know, like,

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this band are too good just
to, sort of, be in the van.

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They're better than this.

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You tell the story. Yeah,
somebody got in contact with us

145
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and said that
The Housemartins had mentioned us

146
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on the Janice Long show,

147
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the review thing that she did on a
Friday evening, and it was like...

148
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"What?" You know, kind of the
strangest thing in the world.

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For some reason, we were able to
get in contact with them

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and we went down to Hull and spent
a Friday night with them

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in the hostelries,
some of the hostelries,

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I think it was pretty much
all the hostelries of Hull.

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Had a drink with them,

154
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I think that was to find out
if we would be suitable.

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To go on the road with? Aye, right.

156
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So, they supported us in '86,
travelled all over with us.

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# It could be tomorrow
it could be today

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# The sky takes the soul
the earth takes the clay... #

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First gig was in the Hummingbird
at...Birmingham. Yeah.

160
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And probably the most scared
we've ever been in our lives.

161
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We'd never played to anything more
than probably 50 people -

162
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and you were on stage, and that was
a big venue, in Birmingham,

163
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it was a couple of thousand people.

164
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And nobody in that audience
knew who you were? No. Clueless.

165
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We thought we'd get bottled off
every night. Yeah. Right.

166
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And we didn't, you know?

167
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Yeah,
it was a strange experience overall.

168
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# If it's tomorrow
oh, if it's today... #

169
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You've never seen anything like it,
because you don't,

170
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you don't know, you see it on telly
and you go to gigs yourself,

171
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and then to actually be up there

172
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in front of hundreds or
maybe 1,000 or 2,000 people, it's...

173
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I'm kind of glad we did it
when we were young.

174
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I wouldn't fancy breaking through
when you're 55. Yeah.

175
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What, because you're fearless about
it? You don't... You're fearless.

176
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# I've never been here... #

177
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Yeah, they were brilliant,
absolutely brilliant live.

178
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And the next step was to get them
to make records

179
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that would convince the public.

180
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So we put them in touch
with John Williams.

181
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# What a good place to be
don't believe it

182
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# Cos they speak
a different language

183
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# And it's never really happened
to me... #

184
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I was producing The Housemartins.

185
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,680
They told me about this band
called The Proclaimers,

186
00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:11,080
and showed me this cassette.

187
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Which I've brought with me,
which is the famous red cassette.

188
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And I listened to it and I thought,
"Wow, these guys are amazing."

189
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# Yeah, it's over and done with
it's over and done with... #

190
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They'd obviously been brought up
on the Beatles and country music,

191
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,080
but there were shades of
rock and roll

192
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and lyrically, they were sublime -

193
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and I just thought, these kind of
artists don't come around

194
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,600
every single day of the week,
I must get involved with this.

195
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I flew them down to London -

196
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and this was the first time they'd
ever been on an aeroplane, in fact -

197
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and they came down to London

198
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,280
and performed before the Chrysalis
staff in the Chrysalis boardroom.

199
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,120
I think they stood on the old wooden
desk in the office

200
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,120
and played in front of people -

201
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,560
and to hear that music, live,
that close up,

202
00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:05,440
it blows you away,
do you know what I mean?

203
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,160
It was just like they were spitting
their accents in your face,

204
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,560
do you know what I mean?
Like, "Yeah!" Like that.

205
00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,560
So it was no surprise to hear John,

206
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,760
John phoned us up and said
they loved them,

207
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,600
they want to release the record.

208
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,480
But the crucial factor
in sealing the deal

209
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,960
was Craig and Charlie's
first ever TV appearance.

210
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,920
The biggest thing was The Tube.

211
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,080
This was a big music show, it was
a million people every Friday night.

212
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,280
I thought, "We have to let them see
them visually,"

213
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,200
so we shot, for 50 quid,

214
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,280
we shot a little video of
Craig and Charlie

215
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,120
standing down the Royal Mile
singing Throw The 'R' Away.

216
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,360
# I'm just gonna have to learn
to hesitate

217
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,320
# To make sure my words on your
Saxon ears don't grate... #

218
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,720
That swung it around,
because all of a sudden after that,

219
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,400
they had a meeting,
I got a phone call, "You're on."

220
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,720
Didn't Paula Yates introduce you,
with something like,

221
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,560
"Here's something a bit weird"?
She said, she was in the foreground,

222
00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,440
said something like, "And now
here's something really weird."

223
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,280
Yeah. And she wasn't wrong.

224
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,280
Did you feel like
you were something weird?

225
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,360
Oh, God, aye. I think we were always
going to be fish out of water

226
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:04,960
in everything we did.

227
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,120
And now for something totally
weird and unusual.

228
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,000
Identical twins singing.

229
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,840
Craig and Charles Reid, alias The
Proclaimers, come from Auchtermuchty

230
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,800
in Scotland, and supported
The Housemartins on their last tour.

231
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,160
They're proud of being one of the
few Scottish bands

232
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:20,760
who don't sing
with American accents -

233
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,440
and here they are in their TV debut,

234
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,320
another one,
with Throw The 'R' Away.

235
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,880
CHEERING

236
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,200
Well, I remember seeing
The Proclaimers on The Tube,

237
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,680
and they didn't look or
sound like anyone else.

238
00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:44,600
# I've been so sad

239
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,040
# Since you said my accent
was bad... #

240
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,200
Yes, their appearance on The Tube

241
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,720
was baffling, I think,
to most of the audience.

242
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,680
Two kind of geeky guys looking like
folk musicians appear,

243
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:57,000
and then suddenly launch into it
like The Clash.

244
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,880
You're like,
"Who the hell are these guys?"

245
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,080
It was unlike anything
anyone had seen.

246
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,160
Even if you were a proper dyed
in the beard folky in Scotland,

247
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,840
you wouldn't really have seen
anything like The Proclaimers.

248
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,760
# Some days I stand

249
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,520
# On your green
and pleasant land... #

250
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,640
That was a massive show at the time.
It was huge. It was massive.

251
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,480
We went to the football
the next day,

252
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,200
and we were standing
in the east terrace in Easter Road

253
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:24,680
and people were coming up,

254
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:28,520
as we were buying a pie and
a coffee, people coming at us,

255
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,120
"Saw you last night, brilliant,
yeah, fantastic."

256
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,720
So you knew how many people watched
the show, and the impact it had.

257
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,360
# You say that if I wanna get ahead

258
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,040
# The language I use
should be left for dead... #

259
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,920
It was an astonishing thing
when The Proclaimers appeared,

260
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,480
because they appeared
out of nowhere, seemingly.

261
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,960
It was radical, you know,
in a way that was genuinely radical,

262
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,800
in that it was a break from what
everybody was listening to.

263
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,320
On the whole, the '80s
was just a decade

264
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:57,880
when music was kicked to death

265
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,720
by the misuse of appalling cheap
digital technology -

266
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,920
and, obviously,
The Proclaimers made their records

267
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,040
at the height of that,
the first record.

268
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,760
It was at a time of
highly cultivated images.

269
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,680
If you want to contrast
The Proclaimers,

270
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,840
the obvious one would be
to contrast with Bros...

271
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,200
..where you've got these highly
photogenic twins

272
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,120
who've been kind of polished to the
nth degree by their record company.

273
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,520
One of the things
that came out of the 1980s

274
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,520
was the ability to package
subversive and rebellious,

275
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,600
so that something can appear to be,
without really rocking the boat.

276
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,640
The fact that they pitched up
looking and sounding like they did

277
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,640
was one of the most
genuinely rebellious

278
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,560
and subversive acts
of music in the 1980s.

279
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,840
The way they looked was different -

280
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,280
and I don't mean just the fact

281
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,480
that they were twins
and they wore glasses -

282
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,080
but they didn't dress like
kids in a band.

283
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,600
What you've got to understand is,

284
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,640
whilst all these people were
in the charts,

285
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,200
you know, like Spandau Ballet
and Duran Duran,

286
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,240
anybody who dressed like a straight
was seen as a bit like the enemy.

287
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,320
# Will you send back... #

288
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,600
They look middle-of-the-road,
like Roger Whittaker or something -

289
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,200
but actually, you know,
they were real rebels,

290
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,440
because everyone else was doing
electronic music

291
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,400
and The Proclaimers were just...

292
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,440
HE HUMS

293
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,680
You know, and that's rebellion.

294
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,240
In a sweater.

295
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,240
A chunky one, an Arran sweater.

296
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,440
People tend to think of them as
big folky, sort of, couthy thing,

297
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,360
but they're not,
they were more punk than punks.

298
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,120
They were punks in the mid-'70s
in Fife,

299
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,800
you know, they were proper punks.

300
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,200
I'm pretty sure they saw
the early tours of Scotland

301
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,400
by The Clash and the Sex Pistols.

302
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,720
# White riot, I wanna riot

303
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,200
# White riot, a riot of my own... #

304
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,560
We'd read the Tony Parsons interview
with the Clash in '77 in the NME.

305
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,920
I'd read the interview
before I saw the band. Right.

306
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,080
There was no doubt
after reading the interview

307
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,400
that this was the way to do it.

308
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,920
# And everybody's doin'

309
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,400
# Just what they're told to do

310
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,600
# Nobody wants

311
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,200
# To go to jail... #

312
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,280
And did you feel very swept up
in that revolution?

313
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,880
Yeah. It felt like it was ours.
You know?

314
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,560
It wasn't looking back at people
who were 40, making music.

315
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,920
He says, at 55!

316
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,320
And even though you were up
in Scotland

317
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,480
it didn't feel remote,
that kind of... No, it didn't.

318
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,480
I think
if you were interested in it

319
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,320
and you felt it was part of you,

320
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,800
I don't think it mattered
where you were. Right.

321
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,600
And then you formed a punk band,
I believe?

322
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,280
Yeah, we formed a couple of bands -

323
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,680
the first one was called
The Hippy Hasslers...

324
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,200
Lovely name. It was a good one.

325
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,720
And the second was called Black Flag

326
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,560
before we even knew
there was an American one.

327
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,200
# White riot - I want to riot

328
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,640
# White riot - a riot of my own. #

329
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,000
One of many iconic champions
of Craig and Charlie early on

330
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,720
was Bill Drummond, later better
known as half of The KLF.

331
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,480
Musically and culturally,

332
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,720
he felt a kindred spirit
with The Proclaimers.

333
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480
As a maverick, you don't get
any more maverick

334
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,920
than the guy who burnt
a million quid,

335
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,040
and took a bunch of fake monks
to the Isle of Jura,

336
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,160
and, you know, dropped a dead sheep
at the Brit Awards.

337
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,040
It was 1986.
I was 33 and a third years old.

338
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:25,000
Things were going nowhere.
Time for a revolution in MY life.

339
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,520
I decided to write, record and
release my own album - The Man.

340
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,960
I sung the songs in my own accent,

341
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,480
and my long-time colleague
David Balfe said,

342
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,240
"Just don't embarrass yourself,
Bill -

343
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,880
"nobody outside of Scotland

344
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,520
"wants to hear songs sung
in a Scottish accent."

345
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,360
But I didn't care.

346
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,640
Then the next day, David Balfe
phones me up

347
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,520
and he said he'd seen these two
brothers on The Tube

348
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,680
singing in their own accent,
a Scottish accent -

349
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,720
and they were brilliant.

350
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,400
He said we should sign them to
our music publishing company,

351
00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,880
Zoo Music -

352
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,200
but in those days there was no
YouTube or catch up

353
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,320
to check them out, I just had to
take his word

354
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:05,960
that they were brilliant,

355
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,480
even though they sang in their
own accent, a Scottish accent.

356
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:15,160
So we ended up signing them to our
music publishing company, Zoo Music.

357
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,640
And these two brothers
WERE brilliant,

358
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,840
and they still ARE brilliant.

359
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,880
You know, if someone like
Bill Drummond,

360
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,200
who doesn't do anything the
easy or obvious way -

361
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,760
I don't believe he's actually sat
down for an interview

362
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,680
in this traditional sense
for this programme...

363
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,120
If someone like Bill is on side, you
know you're doing something right.

364
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,520
# Promised you a miracle... #

365
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,680
At the time, all the Scottish
bands - I mean, Simple Minds,

366
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:45,760
Big Country, Hipsway -

367
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,160
nobody was singing
in their own accents. BOTH: No.

368
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,560
It was all this kind of
transatlantic kind of sound...

369
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,320
Yeah. ..and that was just accepted
as the norm, wasn't it?

370
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,920
We'd gone to London two or three
times and met a couple of people,

371
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,560
and they'd always been, "Well,
we like the songs but the accent..."

372
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,960
Oh, really? So you met quite
a lot of resistance?

373
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,080
It was there, you know?

374
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,360
I couldn't see the point
of writing the songs

375
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,880
about stuff that we knew
and had observed,

376
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,960
and then singing it in
a mid-Atlantic accent,

377
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,600
I couldn't see the point of that.

378
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,880
And Throw The 'R' Away,
that was the first single, right?

379
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,000
Yes, it was. It was, yeah. It was.

380
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,440
It didn't get very much play.

381
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,040
Did in my house.

382
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,120
# ..This Caledonian clown

383
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,320
# I'm just going to have to learn
to hesitate

384
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,560
# To make sure my words
on your Saxon ears don't grate... #

385
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:31,840
That was what was striking -

386
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,240
someone said, "They're singing
in their own accent,"

387
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,920
and you're suddenly going,
"Right enough, so they are."

388
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,080
Because you hadn't even
thought about

389
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,360
the idea of a band singing
in their own accent,

390
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,520
especially not a Scottish accent.

391
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,960
# He's been so sad

392
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,720
# Cos you said his accent
was bad... #

393
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,360
We tend to keep our vowels very
short - we say "shirt" and "skirt"

394
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,720
whereas the English would say
"shi-irt" and "ski-irt."

395
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,680
It's definitely
an easier way of singing,

396
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,400
with those really big open
vowel sounds -

397
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,960
and it's quite a decision
to sing in a Scottish accent.

398
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,520
# ..if I flattened all my vowels
and threw the R away... #

399
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,520
MURIEL GRAY:
I get the impression with them

400
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,800
they probably didn't even
think twice about it.

401
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,480
The Proclaimers' Scottish dialect
singing was more to do with punk,

402
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,120
than it was anything to do with
anything political...

403
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,360
Not even just punk, actually -
Alex Harvey was the first person

404
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,640
really to start singing in
a really broad Scottish accent.

405
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,480
# I followed a naked body

406
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,080
# And a naked body followed me... #

407
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,880
And HE was acting on the back of

408
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,480
new wave and punk English artists

409
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,160
who'd started to sing...

410
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,880
admittedly slightly like Bert
in Mary Poppins,

411
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,880
you know, like the Sex Pistols...

412
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,680
but nevertheless that was
a really new thing, where you could

413
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,160
actually sing in your own dialect.

414
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,040
To me it's kind of...

415
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,480
I suppose as an artist, really,
for want of a better word

416
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,280
it's all about integrity.

417
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,960
It's all about getting to the truth.

418
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,440
That's what it's about,
and everything else comes from that.

419
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,600
And that's what they were saying
in that statement.

420
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,400
But it was a determination
to do it our own way,

421
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,800
and...not sod the consequences,
but accept the consequences.

422
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,840
That's quite ballsy if you're skint,

423
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,320
and these people are kind of going,

424
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,120
"If you could just change
that one thing"...

425
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,200
I suppose it is.

426
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,440
I suppose it is, but...
you know, we were younger,

427
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,080
and we were determined,

428
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,320
and we fed off each
other's energy about it

429
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,280
and our determination to do it
the way that we would do it.

430
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,160
# Please don't go

431
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,160
# Rushing by

432
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,280
# Stay and make my heart fly... #

433
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,240
So tell us about recording that
first album. You came to London...

434
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,600
We did,
John Williams brought us down.

435
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,280
So we hadn't really spent any time
in the studio before.

436
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,840
We spent a couple of days
trying out new guitars,

437
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,040
cos the thing I had

438
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,600
was like something that had fallen
off the back of a lorry...

439
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,000
Right. So we tried a few
new guitars,

440
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,880
then 12-string and stuff like that.

441
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,920
So a couple of days messing
about with that,

442
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,960
and then got into recording
the songs.

443
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,560
Pretty much just set up,

444
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:02,720
got the microphones right

445
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,000
and just played them
until we got a version we liked.

446
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,320
# ..Cos I never seem to know
the time

447
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,560
# When you're with me... #

448
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,400
We kept it very intimate.

449
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:18,320
And Charlie and Craig recorded most
of their takes in the control room -

450
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,280
and I felt that I could
make them sound huge

451
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,840
without too many overdubs.

452
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,000
# ..Stay and make my heart fly

453
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,240
# I can't do any more... #

454
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,400
It was quite a tricky job
for John producing it,

455
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,640
to sort of bridge that gap between
something that sounded fantastic

456
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,600
as a demo but something that had to
be played on radio. You know.

457
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,880
That's what they wanted, they wanted
it to be a successful record.

458
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,200
So in a way that was quite

459
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,760
a hard job, you know,

460
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,680
but I think it achieved that,
definitely.

461
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,800
We knew Letter From America

462
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,040
was the big track on the album

463
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,760
in terms of how we'd reach people -

464
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,680
and we also knew that we'd have to
record it with a band,

465
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,640
because you wouldn't get radio play.

466
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,320
Them and Kenny made
an inspired choice

467
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,520
with getting Gerry Rafferty,
a fellow Scotsman,

468
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,840
someone who had great success in
the '70s, to remix that record.

469
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,920
In very blunt, pragmatic terms,
that remix gave them a hit -

470
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,440
and they were off.

471
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,080
This band, it's their very first
time on top the Pops,

472
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,880
this is a big hit - The Proclaimers,
and Letter From America.

473
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,320
WHOOPING

474
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,080
# When you go, will you send back

475
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,760
# A letter from America? #

476
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,160
The power of Gerry Rafferty's
production

477
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,200
on Letter From America
was so amazing

478
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,840
that it just blew everybody away.

479
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,720
# ..From Miami to Canada... #

480
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,160
I remember being in Chrysalis'
offices the Friday it came out,

481
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,680
and the head of the company
was dancing around the office.

482
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,880
Cos basically they recouped
their money in five days.

483
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,480
# ..To the second chance
I wonder how it got on... #

484
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,920
I think it went really well,

485
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,480
and it was the way, I suppose,

486
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,520
we got across to a bigger audience,

487
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,720
and had a...well,
had a pretty big hit record.

488
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,760
Yeah. A very big hit record -

489
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,800
and also a record that mentioned
Bathgate in it, which I think...

490
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,000
As someone FROM Bathgate,

491
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,240
I think it's the only time
that's ever happened.

492
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,960
Probably. Give it time!

493
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,680
There'll be a country music song
along pretty soon.

494
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,080
MAYBE there will be.
I'm not going to hold my breath.

495
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,840
# Bathgate no more

496
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,040
# Linwood no more

497
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,360
# Methil no more,
Irvine no more... #

498
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:30,640
CHRISTOPHER BROOKMYRE: Two guys
with acoustic guitars

499
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,760
singing a song about
the Highland Clearances

500
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,800
was not something that was going
to shock anybody,

501
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,800
because that's a familiar subject
for folk music -

502
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,680
suddenly making it about steel
plant closures, you know,

503
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,720
making it "Methil no more",
that changed everything.

504
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,240
Suddenly there's an edge to it,
it immediately relevant,

505
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,680
and you understand what the song
is all about at that point.

506
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,920
# ..Methil no more

507
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,720
# Irvine no more... #

508
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,480
Letter From America came out
at a time

509
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,960
when I was getting
really involved in politics,

510
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,880
so it wasn't just that my home town

511
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,240
was mentioned in it - which
in itself was quite a big thing -

512
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,640
but it was also that it spoke about,
you know, something about my country

513
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,480
that was also motivating me
to get involved in politics,

514
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,760
so that song, for me,

515
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,160
is the sort of anthem
of my teenage years.

516
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,640
And it's also a very
political track, of course, as well.

517
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,680
That's just because
that's what occurred to you,

518
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,760
or because...that's what you needed
to write about?

519
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,840
It was written in...

520
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,240
It must have
been written about 198..4? Mm-hm.

521
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,920
It was basically
rage at what was going on.

522
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,640
Both of us were disgusted

523
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,480
by the callous way
that unemployment was used

524
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,000
to break organised labour,
to break...the spirit of people.

525
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,400
Has anger always been
a motivating factor for writing?

526
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,320
I think so, I think
it should be there.

527
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600
I think if you can channel it,

528
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,600
and it disnae feel like
you're lecturing somebody

529
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,480
or you're boring them.

530
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,480
# ..Take a look up the rail track

531
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,000
# From Miami to Canada... #

532
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,000
People say that's their most
political song -

533
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,960
it's not, it's their most romantic,
it's absolutely beautiful.

534
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,480
# ..From Wester Ross to Nova Scotia

535
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,520
# We should have held you
We should have told you

536
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,760
# But you know our sense of timing

537
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,040
# We always wait too long... #

538
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,440
It has a huge theme of loss
and, you know,

539
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,520
longing for something that you've
lost, even if you haven't lost it -

540
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,240
people weep about that song who've
never BEEN to Scotland before!

541
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,120
Because they're thinking about
their OWN losses,

542
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,200
something they've left behind
that they can't ever recapture.

543
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,040
It's the authentic feeling

544
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,400
of humanity that absolutely

545
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,160
underpins all The Proclaimers' work.

546
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,200
They really understand what it's
like to be human.

547
00:25:54,200 --> 00:26:02,160
# ..Lochaber no more. #

548
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,000
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

549
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,240
So when you came to record that
first album,

550
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,200
you had those songs all ready to go.

551
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,280
Yes. So tell us
about the writing process.

552
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,400
The first record was written
in the flat in Edinburgh.

553
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,840
I just remember, like,
afternoons in Edinburgh

554
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,320
being when we were on the dole

555
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,400
and just writing
and writing and writing.

556
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,240
Just sort of sitting
facing each other...?

557
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,320
Yeah, throwing ideas about. Erm...

558
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,880
And if we got an idea for a tune
we would both try lyrics

559
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,320
and then we'd stick with what the
better lyrical idea was... Right.

560
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,320
..and kind of work on that,
and just playing it,

561
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,560
but a lot of...just trying
to strengthen the voices,

562
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,320
and make it powerful.

563
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,160
The Proclaimers' music is...

564
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,000
a great photograph,

565
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,120
sonic photograph of the time.

566
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:49,960
It's kind of like a diary -

567
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,560
and they've got a very diaristic way
of writing, so...

568
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,840
It's sort of like a couple
of Scottish guys' journal

569
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,880
that you're looking at,
and it's got a soundtrack to it.

570
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,040
If you think about the poppiness
of the hooks -

571
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,960
the tunes, they're all catchy,
they burn themselves into your head.

572
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,000
And then when you look at
the hooky lyrics -

573
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,200
I mean, how can you not
love a song that starts

574
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,400
"There's a touch upon my lips,
left by memory's fingertips"?

575
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,920
That's a Patsy Cline song.

576
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,320
# There's a touch upon my lips

577
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,560
# Left by memory's fingertips

578
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:27,040
# I still hear her voice
when there's no sound... #

579
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,400
KEVIN ROWLAND: As songwriters,
I think they're genius, actually.

580
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,040
And the thing about them
is they've got the common touch.

581
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,040
They seem like natural songwriters.

582
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,840
Therefore the arrangements
come easy, etc.

583
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,680
# When I saw her first
it was lust, my friend

584
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,560
# Thought it would burn
then it would end

585
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,360
# But I lost my old philosophy... #

586
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,640
You don't think -
and this is the real art to it -

587
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,000
you don't think,
"Oh, there's Craig and Charlie

588
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,520
"just singing another song
about breaking up with a woman."

589
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,560
You listen to the song, and...

590
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,760
you do that with very good
songwriters. You listen to the song.

591
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,200
One thing I know is good lyrics.

592
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,600
Mm. That's the main thing,

593
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,920
it's good lyrics.

594
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,080
Craig is er...

595
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,160
a little bit dark.

596
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,160
He is!

597
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,200
And that's good. I don't know if...

598
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,120
Charlie's lyrics

599
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,520
are not so, er...

600
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:25,880
dark,

601
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,000
but it's yin and yang. Oh.

602
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,680
# When I was a younger man... #

603
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,280
JUSTIN CURRIE: I'm not sure if
they've ever written a BAD song -

604
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,720
but even if they're writing
a love song, it'll be very blunt.

605
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,400
They can be incredibly romantic,

606
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,280
and they can elicit
very powerful emotions

607
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,800
whether it's pride
or whether it's sadness...

608
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,520
and they do it without

609
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,960
appearing to be pretentious
or really trying too hard.

610
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,920
# I want to spend my life
with you... #

611
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,520
It's like they've built a...

612
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,520
you know, they've built a Jaguar
from the most basic Lego set,

613
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,720
they don't even have a Meccano set.

614
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,880
I think that's amazing.

615
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,040
# ..I can't conceive of the years
left to me... #

616
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,520
Will you worry over a lyric?

617
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,760
Because your lyrics seem very witty,
very crafted...

618
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,400
Yeah. It's not...

619
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,000
I wouldn't say it was worrying.

620
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,320
I'm certainly not a perfectionist,

621
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,400
and I don't envy those
who ARE perfectionists.

622
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,280
If you got the feeling
at the beginning,

623
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,160
the rest comes -
you shift the key, or you...

624
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,360
you learn to hit the note
that you cannae hit -

625
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,720
but if you got the feeling at the
beginning, there's no worries.

626
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,400
What, sort of, creative arguments
do you ever have?

627
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,520
I mean, is it all quite...?

628
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,040
Maybe more in the past, I think.
Right. And you would...

629
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,480
I don't know if we ever argued...
I don't think we ever argued
about a subject matter.

630
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,120
I don't think any subject matter
was off-limit.

631
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,720
Maybe you would ask
whether it was good enough or not.

632
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,840
But you don't fall out about...

633
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,640
If we've got something that one
of us really doesn't like,

634
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,440
then we don't do it.

635
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,880
We don't do it, the veto is there.

636
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,560
If there's something
that we don't...a song,

637
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:12,920
then we won't do it.

638
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,200
There's never a question of either
of you working without the other?

639
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,360
Sooty and Sweep.

640
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,680
LAUGHTER

641
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,240
I think it's unlikely, David.

642
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,520
Aye. I think if we get through
to the age we've got to now,

643
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,760
you know, I think the solo career
and doing some of my numbers

644
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,520
with the London Philharmonic
is not going to happen.

645
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,040
I'd like to see that.
It's a lovely idea, isn't it?

646
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,760
I'd like to see both your numbers
with the London Philharmonic.

647
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,600
That would please the public,
wouldn't it?

648
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,160
Well, The Proclaimers' new album
has already gone silver.

649
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,840
It's only been out a few days.
Here's the first hit from it.

650
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,640
It's at number 14,
an old record of the week.

651
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,920
I love it.
I'm Gonna Be, The Proclaimers!

652
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,480
Most artists have to contend with

653
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,400
difficult second album syndrome.

654
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,120
# When I wake up... #

655
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,920
Not so with Craig and Charlie.

656
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,720
Released just one year later,

657
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,600
Sunshine On Leith featured
their biggest hit to date

658
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,280
and brought them to
an international audience.

659
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,840
# I'm gonna be the man
who goes along with you... #

660
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,040
Sunshine On Leith was
a massive album,

661
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,320
with some massive hits on it,
of course,

662
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,520
which took you on a, kind of,
global journey.

663
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,000
Yeah. Was that something
you were expecting?

664
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,920
No... Or wishing for?

665
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,120
No, it wasn't. I'm glad it happened.

666
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,240
You know, we recorded the record

667
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,160
and we knew it was
a really good record,

668
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,800
we were very proud of it,

669
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,880
and we knew that I'm Gonna Be
would be the first single.

670
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,200
# But I would walk 500 miles

671
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,200
# And I would walk 500 more

672
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,960
# Just to be the man... #

673
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,680
It became a huge hit
in lots of different countries

674
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,840
and that song was the one
that took us round the world.

675
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,240
# I'm gonna be the man
who's working hard for you... #

676
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,400
I remember that it was banned
in the US by certain radio stations

677
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,720
and it was because the DJs didn't
understand some of the language -

678
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,680
in particular, the word "haver".

679
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,680
And they suspected that it had
some kind of sexual context.

680
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,440
It's very revealing that
their default assumption

681
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,960
was that it was some sort of
sexual perversion.

682
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,680
In fact, there was one American
radio station that...

683
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,920
The quote they gave was something
along the lines of,

684
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,760
"We don't know what it means,
but we suspect it's subversive."

685
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,240
And the great irony, of course,
is what the word actually means,

686
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,000
which would be the perfect summation
of all of the American DJs

687
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,240
who were banning it.

688
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,520
It means you're talking shite.

689
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,880
# And if I haver
Yeah I know I'm gonna be

690
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,400
# I'm gonna be the man
who's havering to you... #

691
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,960
I'd have to say 500 Miles is
my favourite Proclaimers song.

692
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,720
It's basically Scotland's
national anthem.

693
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,680
They should just change it, just...

694
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,760
I mean, Flower Of Scotland's
nice and everything,

695
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,280
but it should be 500 Miles.

696
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,640
# But I would walk 500 miles

697
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,560
# And I would walk 500 more... #

698
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,320
Yeah, the song was written,
we were...

699
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,640
It was when we were touring
with the first acoustic record

700
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,120
and we were playing up in Aberdeen

701
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,280
and I was getting picked up
in an hour

702
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,080
and I just sat down
at an electric piano

703
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,880
and I started playing

704
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,400
and it came in, like,
45, 50 minutes,

705
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,920
the whole lot, everything.

706
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,320
One of the quickest songs
I've ever written.

707
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,160
It was just like
it was writing itself.

708
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,880
# When I come home
When I come home

709
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,320
# Oh, I know I'm gonna be

710
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,880
# I'm gonna be the man who... #

711
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,720
It's the reason we're able
to carry on making records.

712
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,280
Oh, really? Is it that significant?

713
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,240
I think, in terms of what it's
brought in over the years,

714
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,280
it pays for new records.

715
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,400
Right. It pays for tours.
It underpins everything we do, yeah.

716
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,960
I mean, you've had...
Letter From America was a big hit,

717
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,120
I'm On My Way was a big hit...
But nothing on that scale.

718
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Just a different scale, is it?

719
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,960
Something about it -
it's indestructible, that record.

720
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,160
# And I would walk 500 miles

721
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,400
# And I would walk 500 more... #

722
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,520
Does the fact that it's been
so huge over so many years,

723
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,080
does it ever rankle?

724
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Do you ever want to go,
"Listen to our new things"?

725
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,400
No, no. The benefits completely
outweigh the negatives.

726
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,160
You wouldn't play a gig without it.
No. No.

727
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,440
We wouldn't get out alive.
It's not like...

728
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,240
It's not like The Beach Boys
or something,

729
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:18,360
where you've had that many hits,
you want to do medleys and stuff.

730
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,840
We've only had a handful
of hit songs.

731
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,280
So you do... If you're playing
for an hour-and-a-half,

732
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,400
you do the handful of hit songs
that you've got,

733
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,200
a few other ones that people
might know,

734
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,320
but it's not something
that we have to worry about,

735
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,840
because we haven't been
that successful.

736
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,760
Oh, I don't know about that.

737
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,520
I mean successful as in having
hit after hit after hit. Right.

738
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,800
Thanks. This is called Cap In Hand.

739
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,880
So, Cap In Hand, specifically,

740
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,720
that came out of your desire
for an independent Scotland.

741
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:52,640
Yes, yes.

742
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,160
We are absolutely total believers

743
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,960
that Scotland should be
an independent country

744
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,400
and I find it difficult
when you meet people

745
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,000
who have never given it a thought,
or completely opposed,

746
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,880
and that's...

747
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,760
I can't understand them.

748
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:14,640
# I can't understand why we let
someone else rule our land

749
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,000
# We're cap in hand... #

750
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,160
And do you write a song like that
in the hope that you will,

751
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,240
sort of, proselytise
and change people's minds?

752
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:27,960
No - it comes from the same...
It comes from the same root

753
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,960
as love songs, I think,

754
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,360
and all of them,
it's that you're feeling...

755
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,960
You feel something inside

756
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,760
and you express it through music,
and you're hopefully...

757
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,000
You're getting a tune
that's memorable

758
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,800
and you're getting a lyric

759
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,880
that is...that is actually going
to make somebody think.

760
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,160
Not necessarily change their mind
or persuade them,

761
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,680
but just that they are actually
going to listen to it.

762
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,960
# We fight, when they ask us

763
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,200
# We boast, then we cower

764
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,760
# We beg

765
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,880
# For a piece of

766
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,760
# Ready, ready, ready, ready...
What's already ours... #

767
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,960
Their songs, over the past 30 years
have, in many respects,

768
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,560
been the soundtrack to Scotland's
political journey

769
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,880
and I think that has made
the politics much more accessible,

770
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,720
at times, to younger generations
and brought politics alive -

771
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:28,360
you know,
not just Letter From America,

772
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,200
but songs like Cap In Hand,
you know...

773
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:36,680
Really, in very simple terms,
but in beautifully lyrical terms,

774
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,800
telling Scotland's story
in that way, I think,

775
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,320
was hugely important.

776
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,800
Politicising, small "p",

777
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,080
politicising a generation
of young Scots like me.

778
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,720
I learned from it, because I grew up
in an affluent area,

779
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,520
went to private school, you know,

780
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,680
middle-class Jewish boy,
and listening to Cap In Hand,

781
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,160
hearing this other view,
was...was illuminating.

782
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,160
I think they've been incredibly
important as a protest band.

783
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,000
I think they are one of
the most important

784
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,800
Scottish protest bands
there's ever been.

785
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,440
You don't have to believe
in the same political outcome

786
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,760
that they want to believe
that what they sing about

787
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,200
is beautiful and right.

788
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,720
What you've got to understand

789
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:21,960
about listening to bands
like The Proclaimers,

790
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,960
it's folk music, right?

791
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,880
And folk music is of our island.

792
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,480
You know? And that's what
we talk about -

793
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,600
we talk about love and politics
and history and all sorts of things.

794
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,680
It is part of our culture,
and it's part of our culture to,

795
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,320
when we get on stage,
tell people what you think, so...

796
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,960
Simple as that, isn't it?

797
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:55,920
# My heart was broken

798
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,960
# Sorrow, sorrow

799
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:06,080
# Sorrow, sorrow... #

800
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,640
Sunshine On Leith was a single,
too, wasn't it?

801
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,040
It was, it was the second
or the third single.

802
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,600
Yeah. And it didn't...
It didn't chart.

803
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,680
They wanted us to do a big edit
on it and we said no.

804
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,880
The song had to...
It's nearly six minutes long,

805
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,360
so it's no' going to get a lot
of play on radio, you know?

806
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,840
But Sunshine On Leith, again,

807
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,200
I think, is one of those songs that
has become bigger down the years.

808
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,720
People, they hear it, and it goes in

809
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,160
and then when you actually
start playing live shows,

810
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,480
that is probably the one
that connects you to the audience,

811
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,640
more than...even more
than 500 Miles.

812
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,520
# While the Chief

813
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,960
# Puts Sunshine On Leith

814
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:58,800
# I'll thank him for his work

815
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:06,440
# And your birth and my birth

816
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,240
# Yeah, yeah, yeah... #

817
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:10,720
Sunshine On Leith, it's just...

818
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,080
You know, it's this beautifully
nostalgic song

819
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,400
that just makes me cry

820
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,440
every time I hear it,
even though it's like...

821
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,600
It's, like, anthemic crying.

822
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,320
SHE LAUGHS

823
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,320
# You saw it

824
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,800
# You claimed it

825
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,000
# You touched it

826
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,600
# You saved it...

827
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,240
It's a good song, and...

828
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:40,200
..it's in the spirit of folk
and rock.

829
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,960
The writing on it is so pared down.

830
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,360
It feels like a really personal,
intimate song

831
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,320
about a specific feeling

832
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,520
between two people,
and yet, you know,

833
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,360
it's the best football song
you'll ever hear, you know?

834
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,320
10,000 people on the terraces
can sing it

835
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,200
and everybody is going to be
in tears.

836
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,960
# My heart was broken... #

837
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,280
Well, Sunshine On Leith
was an unlikely song

838
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,000
for football fans to have adopted.

839
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,640
It's got an unlikely metre.

840
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,760
They do like something
that's a bit more tub-thumping,

841
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,680
and they do tend to like
something that

842
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,480
has an element of goading in it.

843
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,680
And it doesn't - it's a lilting
and quite melancholy song.

844
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,360
You only understand how well
it works when, suddenly,

845
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,600
there is 10,000 folk
singing it in a football stadium.

846
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,040
# While I'm worth

847
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,160
# My room on this earth... #

848
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,520
That's when you know
you've got something. Yeah.

849
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,800
If your own people
sing your own song,

850
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,360
then nobody is forcing
them to do it.

851
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,280
They do it of their own...because
they feel it, so that's good.

852
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,160
That must be quite moving,
you know, as lifelong fans.

853
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,240
I think it is, it's very moving.
Yeah...

854
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:52,440
And it's something that we feel...

855
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,120
It links you more to the club
and it's part of, maybe,

856
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,360
the club's culture now,
and that's fantastic for us.

857
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,600
CHEERING

858
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,240
I don't think, as Scottish people,
we're necessarily famous

859
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,680
for our emotional accessibility.

860
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,400
Is that something you use
your music to access?

861
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,880
Or is that something...
Are you very touchy-feely people?

862
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,640
No, we're not at all.

863
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,040
The music is the thing
that we channel that...

864
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
I think, to be a creative person,
you want to create,

865
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,480
you want to express yourself.

866
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,760
That's the first thing,
whatever it is that you're doing.

867
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,480
And we've expressed ourselves
through our music

868
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:37,760
and we do it to the absolute best
that we can, 100%.

869
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,200
Life is short, you never know
when it's going to end

870
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,960
and you've got to give
everything you've got.

871
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,680
# Beautiful, beautiful

872
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,320
# Beautiful truth

873
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,120
# Don't leave
because I can't see you... #

874
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,880
I think the whole thing about
The Proclaimers is the truth.

875
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:04,680
They look in real life
as they look onstage

876
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,480
and they sound in real life
as they sound onstage.

877
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,440
It's unfettered,
it hasn't been tampered with.

878
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,520
What you see is what you get
and people respond to that.

879
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,280
Do you find that the more honest you
can, sort of, push yourself to be,

880
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,680
the more of a response
you get from the audience?

881
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,880
I think that is usually the case,
or it's very often the case.

882
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,920
I don't think it's always the case.

883
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,360
I remember Kevin Rowland saying
to me, many, many years ago, that...

884
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,680
..there was certain sections
of the audience, or any audience,

885
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,520
who didn't really like stuff
too real,

886
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,440
and I think there is a section
that really don't.

887
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,880
And I think, in any song,
in any art form,

888
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,680
you can get so real that you might
even be pushing your own fans away.

889
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,960
But I think, generally speaking,
if you can be as honest as you can,

890
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,080
you do get a better response,
but not always.

891
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,960
I think it embarrasses them.

892
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,680
It makes them look at things
they don't want to look at.

893
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,680
I think that's what it is.

894
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,600
Yeah...

895
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,840
I mean, it confronts them to face
things they don't want to face.

896
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,120
I think when you're confronted with
that kind of openness and honesty,

897
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,480
you're wondering whether

898
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,120
there's some kind of...some ulterior
motive at work,

899
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,320
and I don't think it is - I think
it's just a real, raw openness

900
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:25,880
that you are presented with.

901
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,360
The success of Sunshine On Leith
was followed by a top 10 hit

902
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,000
with their King Of The Road EP
in 1990,

903
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,120
and then the album
Hit The Highway in 1994,

904
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,640
which contained the top 40 hit
Let's Get Married.

905
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,760
# We've been going together... #

906
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,400
But then Craig and Charlie
became strangely silent.

907
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,120
They wouldn't release another
album until Persevere,

908
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,680
seven years later.

909
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,800
You wait years for the next album.
I mean, years.

910
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,200
What were they doing for those
seven or eight years?

911
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,160
Do you know?

912
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,760
Both our wives
were having children, you know...

913
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,760
I think we needed a rest,
as well, after, kind of,

914
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,000
especially the Sunshine On Leith
thing.

915
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,600
I think that when your life
is in a different place,

916
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,400
especially with children
coming along,

917
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,520
then you kind of feel
your priorities are somewhere else.

918
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,640
Hm. In retrospect, it was a good
thing because it stopped us getting

919
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,440
jaded with the road, you know?

920
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,160
I think if you're on the road
all the time,

921
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:36,520
then you do get jaded with it.

922
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,920
# We are born innocent

923
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,680
# Found guilty

924
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,000
# Living life is treated
like a crime We are... #

925
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,160
So how did working with
Edwyn Collins come about?

926
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,520
We initially worked with Edwyn
when he was producing the music

927
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,000
for the film version of
The Slab Boys by John Byrne,

928
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,200
and he was getting different singers

929
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,280
to come into his studio
in West Hampstead and do songs.

930
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,440
We did a couple
of rock 'n' roll songs.

931
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,320
We enjoyed meeting Edwyn,

932
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,840
admired what he'd done in his own
career,

933
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,400
and really enjoyed the studio,

934
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,640
really enjoyed the kind of relaxed
atmosphere, had a great time there,

935
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,640
so we felt that we could do
a whole album with him,

936
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,680
and we did
the next album with Edwyn,

937
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,760
and it was really a very,
very enjoyable experience

938
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,760
and it felt very natural, and Edwyn
did a really good job on it.

939
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,400
# Born innocent

940
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,120
# Found guilty

941
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:40,040
# Every time. #

942
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:51,240
Charlie and Craig were prepared
immediately. Yeah, immaculately.

943
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,280
Yeah, yeah. And they're very clear
about what they want.

944
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,440
Yeah, yeah. And very experienced
by that time, as well. It's true.

945
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,680
Immediately, it was a balance...

946
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,680
Edwyn's pretty mad in the studio.
He's like a mad professor.

947
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,560
What a brilliant combination, Edwyn
Collins producing The Proclaimers.

948
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,960
What a great idea.

949
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:20,240
In terms of the songs and in terms
of the vibe in the studio

950
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:24,160
and in terms of how everybody
was getting on, and how it worked,

951
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,040
I think probably the most enjoyable
record - for me, anyway - that
we've made over the years. Right.

952
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,360
Just the sound of people,
four or five people, you know,

953
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,840
playing music and just loving it,
and Edwyn gets it.

954
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,360
# You've been let down
Messed around

955
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,680
# Told to get your feet
back on the ground

956
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,360
# When you should have been... #

957
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,640
It was two great Scottish
institutions coming together.

958
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,800
Edwyn by that time had
this great studio in London,

959
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,960
which was stuffed
full of vintage kit,

960
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,440
no bells and whistles, which is just
how Craig and Charlie like it.

961
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,880
One of the songs, Charlie's voice...

962
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,360
Blows the capsules? Blows the
capsule in the microphone, so...

963
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,440
it's loud, but it's the power,
isn't it? Yeah.

964
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,600
It's the power, which is different
to loudness, isn't it? Yeah.

965
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,000
It was fairly, fairly loud.

966
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,320
Ah-ha. Isn't it?

967
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,960
Is it true that you broke
some of Edwyn Collins' gear?

968
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,880
If it isn't true,
it should be, you know?

969
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,520
It's always been
an ambition of mine.

970
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,560
When you hear some of the old stuff
like Little Richard records,

971
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:37,640
Larry Williams, and the vocals are
so high, that they distort the mic.

972
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:44,040
It was real exciting, that. Half
Edwyn's gear was from the 1920s.

973
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,280
It was a lot of old gear,
it's very...

974
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,040
Some of it worked and some of it
didn't, so if-if we broke his mic,

975
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,640
we'll accept responsibility.
He's got that thing...

976
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,760
His studio had that thing of,
you know, you think,

977
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,040
"Things happen here."

978
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,120
# But all your detractors

979
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,440
# Underestimated you

980
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:10,240
# Cos they don't know you
like I do. #

981
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,440
The songs that you sing
and the way you sing them,

982
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,640
they have such a personality,
the syncopation,

983
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,600
the kind of guttural noises that
you sprinkle through and all that -

984
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,600
was that something
that just emerged?

985
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,680
Yeah! Guttural noises! That's one
way of putting it. We deserve that.

986
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,200
You know, with your "uh"s!
It's just the way...it-it is.

987
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,800
I think probably a lot of it is
the people you enjoyed listening to.

988
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,840
Exactly. You know, I never wanted
to sound like somebody... No.

989
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,400
..but you take...you absorb it.
Yeah.

990
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,280
And so you get people...

991
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,480
We always admired people
who could actually sing,

992
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,600
and by sing I mean
actually project their voice.

993
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,440
See, a lot of people who can sing
have got very good voices

994
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:55,880
but they cannae actually belt it.

995
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,520
# I met you

996
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,760
# I met you. #

997
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,240
I think when they're sounding
angry, they sound like two voices

998
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,760
in competition, and they sound like
twins, they sound like two twins

999
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,120
who are fighting for...food, really
- that's how raw they sounded,

1000
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,680
like two little kids at a table,
going, "Me!" "Me!" "Me!" Like that.

1001
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,880
# I met you. #

1002
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,720
This call and response...
and not many artists
have this kind of chemistry,

1003
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:32,000
where one starts, one finishes,
one ends, one begins,

1004
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,480
and it's just a blend of
powerful musical genius.

1005
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,320
# Broke off from my work
the other day

1006
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,840
# Spent the evening thinking
about all the blood... #

1007
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,680
You can definitely hear the
influence of Dexys, Kevin Rowland's

1008
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,640
vocal gymnastics, you can hear
in both of their voices.

1009
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,400
# When you go
will you send back... #

1010
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:01,280
And it's particularly Craig's voice.
It's kind of righteous, you know?

1011
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,800
He's not taking any prisoners,

1012
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,840
and that's not something
that he's decided to do.

1013
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,840
That's, like, inherent in him.

1014
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,040
He sings it with total conviction
and total belief, and again,

1015
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,680
it's not like a forced thing,
it's not like that,

1016
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,400
it's just...you know,
you can't really not believe him.

1017
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,320
I think Charlie is a great singer
in his own right, actually,

1018
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,400
and I'd like to hear him sing more.

1019
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,720
Over the years, The Proclaimers'
success has continued to grow.

1020
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:40,920
# I'm on my way from misery
to happiness today

1021
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,320
# Ah-ha Ah-ha
Ah-ha Ah-ha

1022
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:44,840
# I'm on my way... #

1023
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,320
I'm Gonna Be earned them a gold disc
in America after featuring

1024
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,640
in films such as Benny and Joon,
The Bachelorette and Pitch Perfect.

1025
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,360
And of course, a certain green ogre
brought I'm On My Way

1026
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,000
to the attention of
a whole new generation of fans.

1027
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,040
More recently, playwright Stephen
Greenhorn used the raw materials

1028
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,720
of Craig and Charlie's songs
to create the hit musical
Sunshine On Leith.

1029
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,200
Craig and Charlie have even been
stretching their own acting muscles,

1030
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:15,600
however briefly,

1031
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,280
with an appearance in the film
version of Sunshine On Leith,

1032
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,800
as cartoons in Family Guy

1033
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,920
and also with super fan
Matt Lucas in a music video

1034
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,880
he directed for them.

1035
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,600
Oh, look at that!

1036
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,120
I came up with this idea

1037
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,240
to do a home video,

1038
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:38,640
of an anniversary party.

1039
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,760
Go away!

1040
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,960
I'd written these two
old lady characters,

1041
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,560
and I hadn't thought,

1042
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,600
"Oh, I'll ask Craig and Charlie
to play the old ladies,"

1043
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:57,240
and then it was only when I
rewrote it, I thought, "Of course!

1044
00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:59,600
"Of course! I'll get them in drag!"
It's what I do.

1045
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,240
# Are you happy now
Say yeah... #

1046
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,200
How much persuasion did that take?

1047
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,000
It took... He did it the right way.

1048
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,320
He said, "The video we'll do this
way - you'll be singing in a corner

1049
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,960
"and then we'll get a couple of old
ladies doing the stuff," and then...

1050
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,760
"That's a great idea," then they
came back a few days later,

1051
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,560
"Would you be the old ladies?"

1052
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,560
I thought...
I wouldn't play him at cards.

1053
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,400
At first, they were very reticent
and they said they're not

1054
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,200
dressing up in drag, and then,
I don't know.

1055
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,480
I don't know what made them
change their mind.

1056
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,320
Maybe I got the correct bra size
and they were finally convinced.

1057
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:38,520
He did it...

1058
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,480
He did it well, and it was a very,
very enjoyable day,

1059
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,240
and it was an enjoyable experience.

1060
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:50,480
Once the boys had made
the decision to drag up, well,

1061
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,960
they couldn't get into those
clothes fast enough.

1062
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:01,200
# Let me rephrase that
I think there's a better line there

1063
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,880
# Spinning around in the air. #

1064
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,480
You're not going to... It's not
something I want to pursue, no.

1065
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,000
..tour like that? No. Oh, well,
well done for trying. Thank you.

1066
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,560
If the music career
ever takes a dip,

1067
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,560
we could reboot Little Britain
and Charlie and Craig could take

1068
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,160
our roles,
because they were very natural.

1069
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,000
That's it. Party's over.

1070
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,520
GROANING

1071
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,920
Fascist! Right!

1072
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,480
You always do a great gig.
Do you still get nervous?

1073
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:33,560
Do you still get the fear?

1074
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,680
BOTH: Yeah. We do. Not as much
as we used to.

1075
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,280
Sometimes you get nerves and you
don't know why it's happening,

1076
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,040
you know? I think it's always good
to have that. It's... Yeah.

1077
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,080
You should never take
anything for...

1078
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,320
You shouldn't be on auto-pilot
at all. No. No.

1079
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,280
You should be going in there and
the energy should be going

1080
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,840
through you, cos that's
what's going to communicate

1081
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,760
what you're thinking and feeling
to the audience.

1082
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,080
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1083
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,720
INTRO TO I'M GONNA BE
(500 MILES) PLAYS

1084
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:04,000
We have a larger audience now
cos we've played so many shows,

1085
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,160
we've been all over the place,
and if you keep delivering,

1086
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,360
I think people keep coming back.

1087
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:17,240
# Yes I know I'm gonna be
I'm gonna be the man
who's working hard for you... #

1088
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:22,920
I mean, they have a Presbyterian
work ethic, which is staggering.

1089
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,800
They just tour and write
and perform, and they don't stop,

1090
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:32,120
and they carry on being political
activists at the same time.

1091
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,320
That's really Scottish.

1092
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,160
I love that! I love that very much.

1093
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,040
No indolence in The Proclaimers.

1094
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,120
# And I would walk 500 miles

1095
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,760
# And I would 500 more... #

1096
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,080
I'm good friends with a great singer
called Robyn Hitchcock, and

1097
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,560
he said to me when he saw me play
for the first time, he goes, "Oh!

1098
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,720
"You've got the Scottish boot!"

1099
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:01,120
I went, "What do you mean,
the Scottish boot?"

1100
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,840
And he goes, "The Scottish boot
just goes like that,

1101
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,560
"all the way through the song."

1102
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,600
And it was just, like,
I saw it then.

1103
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,440
# Da da lat da (Da da lat da)

1104
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,080
# Da da lat da da da lat da... #

1105
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,720
Honestly, I feel like if you went
into the wardrobes of a collection

1106
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:21,120
of Scottish artists,
myself and The Proclaimers included,

1107
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,240
the left heel of every pair of shoes
is going to be an inch

1108
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:26,560
shorter than the right!

1109
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,760
# And I would walk 500... #

1110
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,120
I think, I think they're great
performers because they're

1111
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,240
very in the moment as performers.

1112
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:40,640
They're just totally in it, and it's
kind of what it's all about, really.

1113
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:47,200
CHEERING AS SONG ENDS

1114
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,600
The reality is that you don't get
remembered for many things.

1115
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,480
You get remembered for a few things,

1116
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,640
and so in truth, The Proclaimers
probably will be remembered

1117
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:02,960
for I'm Gonna Be and,
er...that's...that's great!

1118
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,880
I mean, it's a brilliant song.

1119
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,200
I think people will look back at The
Proclaimers and go, "Utter legends.

1120
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,800
"Utter, utter legends."

1121
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,880
There's never been anybody like them
before and I think we'll have

1122
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,600
to wait a long time
to see anything similar.

1123
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,720
# I'm not gonna talk about it
I'm not gonna talk about it

1124
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:26,600
# I'm not gonna talk about it
I'm not gonna talk about it. #

1125
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:31,560
Their true value isn't going to be
understood until they've gone,

1126
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,760
and then people are going
to look back on

1127
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,560
a body of work
which is kind of incomparable.

1128
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,120
I'm convinced that my
grandkids will be going,

1129
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,840
"God, did you see them live?!
Did you see these guys live?"

1130
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,280
# I'm not gonna talk about it... #

1131
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:53,760
Legacy. We'll leave that to the
likes of Tony Blair to worry about!

1132
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:58,200
Legacy. We'll all be six foot under.
It won't much matter. No!

1133
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,040
I'm thinking about being...
Immortal?

1134
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,480
No. 180.

1135
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,640
Oh, before you die? Yeah!

1136
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,640
# When I started walking to Wishaw

1137
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,880
# My eyes obscured my vision... #

1138
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,560
I think one of their legacies
will be that you can sing about

1139
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,800
specifically local things,
in their case, Scottish things,

1140
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,080
whether it's politics or culture,

1141
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,320
and have an international appeal.

1142
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,520
# I walked through the country
I walked through the town

1143
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,200
# I held my head up
And I didn't look down. #

1144
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:36,120
Nobody's going to look back on
The Proclaimers and say,
"Oh, that was the mainstream,"

1145
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,560
do you know what I mean,
"That's what people did then!"

1146
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,160
Do you know what I mean?
"That was the sound of Scotland!"

1147
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:46,440
cos it wasn't, but I think in a way,
that gives them a timelessness.

1148
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:54,080
The intention's to keep going? Keep
avoiding work. I think we still...

1149
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,040
We enjoy it as much if not more...
Yeah. ..than we did.

1150
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,920
Some people quit too early,
don't they, and some people go on

1151
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,400
too long, and the trick
is to know when to get out,

1152
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,040
and if you're
no longer up to muster,

1153
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,840
then you should quit,
and I know we will.

1154
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:17,520
So if we're not... We'll be the
first. We won't need to be told.

1155
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,720
Well, I hope that won't be
for many, many decades yet.

1156
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,640
Decades! Very optimistic, David!

1157
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,400
# I'm not gonna talk about it

1158
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:38,040
# And I'm not gonna talk about it

1159
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:42,000
# Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. #

1160
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,120
GRUNTS

1161
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,320
CHEERING

1162
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,960
Good night, Glasgow!